Daric:
1) The Rules -- The basic differences in the actual rules of the games can
be thought of as going from cinematic to realistic. 40K is the most
cinematic game I know of, Warzone a little more realistic but still
"colorful", LoS a still slightly more realistic and way on the other end
of the spectrum comes StarGrunt II.
Allan:
Agreed. 40K is actually quite silly in some of it's assumptions, such as
the range at which weapons can fire. WH40K is space fantasy, heavy on the
fantasy. Warzone is similarly space fantasy. Stargrunt II is hard SF, to
the point where some of us have been working on using it for historical
games.
Daric:
In 40K you have powerful characters
that are the center pieces of your army, loaded with exotic weapons. On
the other side, SG II does not have rules for individual characters
(except snipers). There are leaders but their fighting value is the same
as a line trooper. Warzone does have Big Ragu type characters, but if a
whole squad of grunts opens up on him, he will die. All three games ( I
have not played LOS much at all) are good at what they do, as far as that
goes it's personal preference. I consider the flavour of Warzone and 40K
to be close and I prefer Warzone rules. But when I want the feeling of a
few scared young men, crawling on their bellies in the mud and wishing
they were somewhere else, you can't beat SGII.
Allan:
The rules of all three are relatively easy to pick up, but WH40K seems to
be the most fiddly. GW keeps adding new equipment and new rules that tend
to throw the game's balance a little out of whack, so there are a lot of
things to look up in different places. Note that Games Workshop has a
tendancy to "re-write" its games every couple of years. If you want to play
in their stores, you have to use the current figures with the current
rules. I have the old Rogue Trader version (which plays quite a bit
differently from the latest version) but no one plays it anymore.
Warzone's core rules are pretty straightforward, with two additional
supplements for things such as vehicle rules. Both of these games have a
point system.
In WH40K your leaders are usually your most powerful characters. This
causes great laughter amongst those in the armed forces. The leaders should
be LEADING. Basically, it's Dark Ages combat thrown into the far future.
The leaders "lead" by charging the enemy and bashing more heads than anyone
else. This kind of combat died with the Vikings, but it's been resurrected
here. This can be lots of fun, if it's your cup of tea. Stargrunt II
(henceforth SG2) is a lot heavier into things like morale and leadership.
SG2 also includes neat morale effects if you happen to leave your wounded
buddy lying in the mud screaming without getting him medical assistance...
Daric:
When it comes to playing the games, I find most of the battle is won or
lost in the army selection phase for 40K. Aside from some very lucky or
unlucky die rolls. But most of the time, someone familiar with the game
can tell who should win after both sides are set up. Strategy is very
simple when you get your army down. In Warzone it's about equal between
troop selection and game play. You can come up with some killer combo of
troops and equipment, but if they walk in front of my basic grunts they
are toast. In Stargrunt II it is recommended that you come up with
scenarios in which you (like a real battlefield commander) don't have
whatever troop type you like. They don't have a point system or anything.
SG II is not about competetion but the play of the game. Noble, but I'm
not quite there yet.
Allan:
Note, though, that SG2 only has the one book. That's all you need. It's a
generic game designed for use with any figures. It comes complete with
vehicle rules, air support rules, artillery rules, etc. It doesn't have
rules for aliens (they will be in the first supplement).
This is true, though some people are cobbling one together and I wouldn't
be surprised to see one show up in the first supplement. The game is based
on scenarios, similar to what the historical guys do. It's harder to get
into, but results in more interesting games.
Daric:
2) The Figures -- GW has the highest quality and price. I think the
average is around $3.50 per basic fig. More for Sgts and specials. With
single characters going up to $9 Vehciles and such range from $12.50
(plastic bike) to upwards of "Hell I can't count that high!" And they
seem to be very effective at brainwashing you into appreciating
ludicrously oversized weapons, excess ornementation, and Arnold type
muscles. Hell, I fell for it! Warzone does produce some very nice minis
but you sometimes have to pick and choose. Difficult because few stores
carry their entire line (quite large at this point!) They also have
oversized weapons (but at least recognizable as based on modern tech) and
huge muscles but ornementation is lower. Thus the figs are easier to
paint up to a high standard. Prices are lower for Warzone figs (slightly
over $2 per fig) Most are packed as $9 for four. Leaders are not too much
higher.
Allan:
Not surprisingly, to play WH40K in GW sanctioned tournaments and the
stores, you need the latest figures. A number of people outside of the
stores require this as well, but your game group may be different.
Daric:
SG II has some nice figures, so I've been told. Official figs
are highly optional (It says so in the rules!) The few figs I've seen, I
did not like. But that might just be because they are true 25mm, have
reasonable sized guns and everybody does not have "huge pectoral muscles".
Even cheaper than Warzone because they are much smaller.
Allan:
But you can also use any figures you can find for SG2. I'm about to start
painting some old 15mm Traveller figures for SG2. I also have some
not-as-old 25mm Leading Edge Games figures from their Living Steel RPG. You
can easily scrape together any figures you need or want. There are a number
of conversions out there for using WH40K figures with SG2, for those of us
that cut our teeth with GW but have become disillusioned with the GW money
machine.
Daric:
3) Finding opponents - You must consider this as a great game that sits on
your shelf is not such a great game after all! (Anybody for a game of
Flintloque???)
GW wins hands down right now. You go to any place that has in-store
gaming and you'll most likely find a GW game in progress. But many
people, myself included, are working hard to change this.
Allan:
Agreed, but only if you play the current incarnation of the rules, or
perhaps one removed. Forget about trying to find Rogue Trader players...
Daric:
Warzone finds
converts quickly when you actually get people to play it. Every store has
a few Warzone players but they might be harder to dig up.
Allan:
This is distinctly regional. I find it easier to find SG2 or Dirtside II
players than Warzone players.
Daric:
SG II is almost
impossible to find players for, at least in my experience. 40K has a nice
standard set of "tournement rules" that make it easy to play someone
you've never met before. Warzone is a little more difficult to come up
with a standard as many people play it differently depending on how much
they hate 40K.
Allan:
See above. All of the games can be played at most reasonable game
conventions. And you can always try to drum up interest amongst your
friends.
Daric:
Stargrunt only has the basic rules at this point.
4) Price -- Use what ever figures you like and see above comments on that.
But as far as everthing else goes, GW is still the most expensive. The
$60 set is all you "really" need to play. But to take advantage of the
wealth of other players, you will need Dark Milleneium (around $40 I
think) and a Codex for your army ($20) and some may argue your opponents
Codex if you are going to hope to beat him. And GW trys to push you to
use only GW figs (and the approriate GW fig no less) , which also hurts
you wallet. Warzone needs the Basic rules ($20 when I bought mine but a
little more now I think). They have two supplements (Both $20 or less. I
really can't remember because it seems like nothing compared to all my
huge GW purchases) But you really don't need the supplements to play
others. Sure everything has some special rules but you can still kill it
easy enough if you know your own troops.
Allan:
But for the most part that's all you need (for Stargrunt). It has pretty much everything
except aliens. They should come in the Bugs Don't Surf supplement.
Daric:
Finally you should consider the scale, or size, of the games. By this I
mean the number of figures you have for an average game. This affects
price, obviously, and the flavour of the game. 40K needs the most figs
and has the biggest battles. The rules are simplfied for easy of play.
(At least theoretically) Warzone and Stargrunt both need maybe half or
less of the number of figs for 40K.
Allan:
When I played WH40K Rogue Trader, I found that it played best with about 30
figures per side. Unfortunately, people started using it for 100 figures
per side game and the whole thing tended to bog down. I remember playing a
game at a con that took 1/2 an hour per SIDE to complete. It wasn't my idea
of fun. I hear that the current rules are faster for larger battles.
Sorry, not true with SG2. SG2 needs between 30 and 60 figures per side for
a good game. You can get by with 20 (or less) figures per side in Warzone.
WH40K and Warzone are essentially skirmish games. SG2 is a tactical game at
about one level higher in organization. Funny enough, WH40K seems to use
even more vehicles than SG2.
Daric:
Rules are a little more detailed
(much more in the case of SGII) so the game takes about as long to play.
But they are easier on your wallet, painting time, and storage space.
Allan:
I disagree. The SG2 rules take more things into effect, but the rules are
far more elegant. Instead of rolling for each character in a squad, you
roll once for the squad as a whole, and once for any support equipment
(this is simplified, as you can split the fire of the squad). A good sized
SG2 battle can be over in two to three hours of furious maneouvre and
fighting. You can usually play two games of SG2 in the time it takes to
play one game of WH40K.
Daric:
Everything considered, I recommend Warzone as you best gaming value. It's
a good compromise between the flash of 40K and the hardcore StarGrunt II.
If you know you are especially attracted to flash or hardcore, then go for
the respective system of your choice. None of them are really bad, just
different!